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Allison: So, you’re on the set of the Like a Prayer video with Madonna, and you had to know this was going to be a controversial video, or that it would at least spark a major conversation about race and about religion. What were you thinking when you were making the video? Leon: First of, I have to tell you, one of the things that made me want to do the video when I was talking with Mary Lambert, and I said to her, “Well let me hear the song.” I heard the song, and I was thinking, “Wow, this song sounds like it’s going to be number one.” I then said, “Let me get this right. You want me to act?” She said, “Yes. I need you to play two different characters and I need an actor for this.” That’s when it clicked, and I got it. I said, “I’m going to be acting in the video, and Madonna will have me come to life and Madonna will adore me? Yeah, okay I got it. I can see me doing this (laughs). Allison: I get it now. Okay. So, they basically twisted your arm (laughs)… Leon: Things had to come together for me to see the vision, you know? When I’m on the set and I realize the level of production and how good this is going to be, all the metaphors in the video, I knew at that time that this was Madonna’s comeback, and this is a number one song. I know it would be the lead off story of every entertainment section. What I didn’t know is it would be the lead off story of everything; not just the entertainment sections, but the front of the newspapers and the first story on the news. Allison: It’s the late 80s and it sounds comical to say this now, but I remember news people discussing your interracial kiss with Madonna. That sounds so crazy now, right? But we’re going back over thirty years ago, and it was a big deal back then. Leon: Not to say it wasn’t a big deal, but I don’t think that the interracial kiss was that big of a deal. Allison: The burning crosses in the video? Leon: It was who she was kissing, and that he was Black. Allison: Tell me the difference… Leon: For one thing, most people believe that she is kissing Jesus and Jesus is being portrayed as a Black man. Allison: Ohhhhh, okay… Leon: That was where there was and is a much bigger controversy. She’s not just kissing a Black man. She’s kissing a Black Jesus. Even though he was just a Saint that came to life, people thought of him as Jesus, so that’s where the controversy really happened. There were so many metaphors, but probably none bigger than that. Allison: When you and Madonna were working together, shooting this video, did she say anything to you about how she thought it was going to be received, or was she just all into the artistry of it and that was it? Leon: Madonna was a lot of fun to be around, and we joked around a lot and did a few things together. She was cool. I think she was very much trusting of her team and the ultimate plan of what this video was supposed to be, and its visuals. I thought she looked great in the video, like an Italian movie star. I think that she was very locked into making her comeback at the time. The song was going to be that lead off thing that was going to kick it off, and it was everything she could have imagined and more. Allison: And everything old is new again, because you have the scenes in the video where you’re being wrongfully accused of attacking someone when you are leaning over, trying to help her, after the perpetrator, who happens to be white, runs away. Leon: Of course, and the thing is, the video is such a positive video if you are a religious person. What happens is, a woman (played by Madonna) sees a crime. She sees the wrong man accused, she went to church for guidance and the guidance she got from church and that experience from church, got her to do the right thing. Allison: Love it. Let’s talk about the movie, Above the Rim. So much of your role in that movie, and I think you talked about this with Vlad TV, but so much of your character Shep comes through your eyes, even more so than your dialogue. What is your technique and how do you get into an intense character like that? Leon: The character of Shep in Above the Rim was an interesting character because he was haunted. He was haunted by what happened to his friend Nutso on that roof and his whole life felt as though he was repenting, and he had to relive everything over and over again. Even when he played basketball by himself, it was like Nutso was there with him and he couldn’t let that go. He couldn’t shake it, so I think it’s very important to have people see that hurt and repenting in your eyes, even more so than any kind of dialogue. Allison: How do you get there? Leon: I’m very much a method actor, so I would delve into a role and stay in that character until the movie was finished. I think it’s how someone holds their shoulders, the look in their eyes, you can always tell something about them. They’re hurting or something is wrong, and I thought that was very important for that character. Allison: You filmed Above the Rim in 1994 and you worked closely with Tupac Shakur in the film. You played brothers at odds. During that time when you were shooting that film in New York, was that at the same time Tupac was arrested for sexual abuse, going through his trial, when he got shot at Quad Studios? Was that all happening to him during filming? Leon: No, it wasn’t when he was shot at Quad Studios, but he had just shot at two off-duty police officers in Atlanta, and then he had some other court case